P1F3: “MUNSTER” DNA GROUP:

 

The following graphic shows the current members of this group. On the left are the tested people, followed by the ancestral genealogy provided by each. If you have not already done so, you may want to read the associated web page on “Coffey Geography”, to put this in context of the overall “Coffey” presence in Ireland:

 

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“Munster” is an ancient region of southwest Ireland, which included what are now the modern Counties Kerry and Cork. The above group are genetically similar to each other, with many people who KNOW their ancestors came from these counties. So we've started calling all the people with matching y-DNA the "Munster" group.

 

These Munster men are all clearly related, but there is an unusual amount of diversity within the group. I think Munster was an ancient Coffey homeland, and time has allowed a lot of DNA evolution, yielding a lot of diversity. This slow DNA evolution may have gradually divided the male lines into two separate groups as marked above. The major difference between the two sub-groups is for the STR marker “DYS449”. The first group above has “DYS449=30”, and four of the men therein identify their family origin as “Kerry”. The second group has “DYS449=29”, and two of the men there identify their family origin as “Cork”. 

 

For Munster, the total population of “Coffey” can be found per the 1911 Census: The total number of Coffey individuals was 2092 (ignoring any spelling variations), and the breakdown was Kerry (811), Tipperary (320), Cork (302), Waterford (274), Limerick (244), and Clare (141). 

 

Looking to the FARMER population for a family name is believed to be an indicator of population origins, because farmers are often bound to the land, which is traditionally handed down to the oldest son in a family. The younger brothers in a family might have to go elsewhere to make their way. There is a large population of “Coffey” farmers in Kerry, particularly on the Iveragh Peninsula. However in 1911 there were relatively few Coffey farmers originally from Cork, and many of the ones found there may be explained by migration from Iveragh to cities in neighboring Cork. I looked at the male Heads of Household in Cork in the 1911 census: There were indeed relatively few farmers, and most of the Heads had other diverse occupations. Of the 67 family heads, 7 were born in Kerry, 3 in Limerick, and 2 in Tipperary.

 

Based in part on this logic that even those who identify their origin as “Cork” might have had original roots in Kerry, we have chosen “Michael” on the above chart as a reference against which to compare the other members of this group. Michael is a farmer, and he still lives in Kerry, near Killarney National Park, on Iveragh. Also his DNA profile is, on average, more similar to the average of the other group participants, and thus may be a closer match to the original group MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor). Further, his closest match is to Aedan, the second line on the above chart. Aedan also still lives in Ireland, has the longest known genealogy of any participant, and traces his ancestry back to the immediate vicinity of Michael’s home.

 

There may be another route to explore this group’s origins. There are several FTDNA groups interested in Munster DNA and “SNP” testing that could ultimately provide more definitive science-based information about family lines, and better define the origins of this group. Aedan and several others have joined these projects: 

 

There are the Munster Irish and Corca Laidhe Projects, which have a geographical focus on this area. While the Munster Irish project categorizes participants in the tribes to which they historically belong, the Corca Laidhe Y-DNA results places our people in their “CTS4466 South Irish” group. There is also a haplogroup group which has similar objectives, but focuses on the haplogroup rather than the geographic area -- the R1b-CTS4466 Plus Project.  In this latter project, our Coffey people are in the “A153+”  All members of our Munster group are encouraged to join if they haven't already.

 

Corca LaidheProject

R1b-CTS4466 Plus Project

Munster Irish Project

 

Within this Coffey group there are two non-Coffey surnames, Brancky and Ross. Brancky is easy, because that reflects a KNOWN adoption. But “Ross” is not so obvious. The Ross family has been making the guess that an early “Coffey” got in trouble with the law, and changed his name to “Ross”. However it may also be possible that his line came from Ireland, already using the name “Ross”: The name is Scottish, but it is found in Ireland, including Cork, and the Ross family’s Coffey DNA could have been picked up in Ireland. Here’s what Dr. Bowes has to offer:

 

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There is one more match that we are now convinced represents Coffey DNA, but the genealogy is unknown and is not entered above. There is a very close match to a “Spencer”, with a short genetic distance to several Coffey (see later discussion). There are no good matches to any other Spencer, and the test person does not know his family origin. However the Spencer name is fairly common in Cork, and there seems to be little doubt that his line has picked up Coffey DNA, either in Ireland or after immigration to the USA.

 

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In addition, this Munster Group has an unusually large number of NON-surname matches on FTDNA. Many of the matches identify family origins in the same vicinity. For example, we have surnames “Callahan” (Waterford), “Holland” (Cork), “Howay” (Tipperary), “Ready” (Kerry), “Daley” (Limerick), “Murray” (Munster), and “Flynn” (Kerry). I suspect this mix simply reflects a very ancient Coffey presence in an ancient homeland, with many opportunities over hundreds of years for other family names to pick up Coffey DNA. The converse is also true, per the “Coffey Geography” paper – there are quite a few people in Cork with the Coffey name, but DNA that does NOT match Coffey.

 

AEDAN AND MICHAEL COFFEY: Note that one of the above members, Aedan Coffey, has an exceptionally long, and apparently well researched, genealogy. And there are some projections that go well beyond even what is shown in the first chart above. Further, Aedan, and his best match Michael, are the only members of this group that still live in Ireland. We have expanded the discussion about Aedan, and you may want to look at the following link:

 

Descendants of Edmund Coffey (1786)

 

The chart at the top shows, with dotted lines, some of the ways that Michael and Aedan’s genealogy may connect to a MRCA. It is quite unlikely to be any more recent than the dotted lines, because Aedan’s family line has been isolated from Kerry for the last several generations. FTDNA’s “Time Predictor” calculates about a 75% probability that the connection will be in one of the ways shown by the dotted lines. (Note that this probability assumes the MRCA CANNOT be in less than 6 generations, which is different than assumed for the next table to be discussed.)

 

It was thought that Michael and Aedan might just be within the range of an autosomal DNA test, which can SOMETIMES spot connections beyond 5 generations. However we ordered FTDNA’s autosomal “Family Finder” test, and no match was detected. 

 

ALL OTHER MATCH COMPARISONS: The FTDNA Time Predictor can be applied to any comparison of any member of this group against any other member. The following table allows you to pick any two members, and get an idea of how closely they match:

 

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This table will take a bit of explanation: Across the top are listed the names of each of the members. And on the right are the same names, along with the y-DNA test they ordered and their sample number. You can pick any name across the top, and then find where it intersects one of the other names on the right.

 

Aa an example, pick Aedan Coffey at the top, and Michael Coffey on the right. They intersect with a code of “2/5/9”. That should be read as “they have a genetic distance of 2, there is a 50% probability their MRCA is within 5 generations, and there is a 90% probability within 9 generations. (Note this appears different versus the earlier comments about Aedan/Michael. Earlier I assumed it was IMPOSSIBLE for the distance to MRCA to be less than 6 because of known genealogy. That kind detail is too difficult to include here for every pair!)

 

Next example, look at where Daniel Dominic Coffey and James Michael Coffey intersect, and we see a code of “8/7/12”, and that it is shaded blue, indicating it is based on a 111-marker comparison. At 111 markers, their genetic distance is 8, the 50% probability is at 7generations, and the 90% probability is at 12 generations.

 

Look at the column for Alan Dale Coffey. He is very distant from ALL of the other “members” of this group. Also his genealogy (see top chart) is more consistent with descent within our Edward Coffey Group. The Edward Coffey Group includes several “Edward Connection” members who picked up non-Edward DNA at some point. I think it was just coincidence that the DNA Alan’s line acquired was VERY distantly related to this Munster Coffey Group. See discussions under “Edward” and “Edward Connections”.

 

At the other extreme, compare Paul Leo Brancky to James Michael Coffey. This is shaded yellow, because it represents a perfect match at 67 markers. As explained earlier, Paul was adopted. Paul and James don’t know where there families come together, but each traces back to an Irish immigrant. If they ever figure it out, their MRCA is likely to have lived quite close to the time when their respective ancestors left Ireland!

 

(I didn’t update the table, but Paul Brancky has now upgraded to 111-markers, and both have done the atDNA test. At 111 markers, they have a genetic distance of 2. But they do NOT show an atDNA match, which could normally detect a match within 5 generations. If we say there can be no match within 5 generations, then FtDNATiP says there is a 40% chance of a match within 6 generations, 80% within 8 generations, and 94% within 10 generations.)

 

Oh, there’s a name on this table, D. R. Spencer, that doesn’t appear on the graphic at the introduction. That’s because Mr. Spencer has never given me his genealogy; He doesn’t know it, and was surprised when his matches came up Coffey. However this table shows he has a PERFECT match at 67-markers to Robert Eugene Coffey, whose great-grandfather was an Irish immigrant. They have both tried the Family Finder test, which does not reveal a match, so their connection must also be just beyond the range of Family Finder?

 

NON-SURNAME MATCH TO “MURRAY”:

There is one more name on the above table, one Richard Murray. Richard has reasonable matches to several of our Coffey members. Further, he has more than one hundred 111-marker matches to other surnames that are at least as good as his best Coffey match. I chose Richard as a “representative” of what might be found if we had the skill and data to pursue all the non-Coffey possible matches.

 

Like many of the Coffeys, Richard is a participant in the “R1b-CTS4466 Plus Project”, mentioned earlier. Richard did the newest “Big-Y” test, and his Haplogroup is reported as “A6464”. Three of the Coffeys did the older “CTS4466 SNP Pack”, which reports their Haplogroup as “A153”. I suspect that the difference between A153 and A6464 may just be a matter of the test used, and if one of the Coffeys did the “Big-Y” they might also be A6464?

 

Bottom line is that there is a large population of people, mostly in the Munster area, who are distantly related to each other per y-DNA testing, and who now have a multitude of surnames. Do they ALL ultimately descend from the Coffey line? Well, if you believe the following 50-generation pedigree, that perhaps could be possible! (This is the pedigree that leads down to Aedan, on the above chart.)

 

http://www.libraryireland.com/Pedigrees1/CoffeyIthe.php