THE WALKER/KIMBREL CONNECTION:

My name is Fred Coffey, and for some time I've been trying to learn all I can about my GGG Grandfather, William Walker. I have learned quite a lot. BUT a major source of frustration is that I have failed to establish the family/families of the women he married.

I have prepared this draft as a discussion document, in the hope that it will find readers who can aid our search. Unfortunately so far this contains no definitive answers – just suspects and ideas:

You can learn what I know about William at the following:

http://www.coffey.ws/FamilyTree/Docs/WALKERWilliam(W).htm

Before proceeding, let me introduce another person who shares interest in this same research: As the following explains, we believe William married two sisters (not at the same time) with the name Kimbrel or Kimbull. And William lived next door to another Kimbrel family, headed by Joseph Kimbrel. And I have started communicating with Marilyn Totten, whose husband Bud has a Kimbrel mother, who descends from this neighbor of William's, Joseph Kimbrel.

This has now become a collaborative effort, with both of us searching for the ancestry of our respective Kimbrel roots. In the following I will sometimes use this font and color for direct quotes from Marilyn, but the whole document should be thought of as a collaborative effort.

Anyway, here goes. This is the state of our present effort to find our Kimbrel (?) roots:

SUMMARY BACKGROUND:

William Walker was born 27 Mar 1790. He married Catharine Kimbrel in about 1818, at which time he lived in Surry County, NC. They lived in the southern part of Surry County (in a part that became Yadkin County after a split in 1850). Specifically, they lived in the general vicinity of the community of Hamptonville, NC, on the waters of Hunting Creek. William and his father and brother had lived in the same area since 1795, and stayed there until after 1833. Given the constraint of horse and buggy transportation, William probably found Catharine in southern Surry County, or the southeast part of neighboring Wilkes County, or the northern part of neighboring Iredell County. (Note: "Hunting Creek" runs across the south side of modern Wilkes County, and just touches the southwest corner of Surry County, before entering Iredell County. It ultimately drains into the Yadkin near the town of Cooleemee in Davie County.)

William and Catharine had 10 children while living in NC. In about 1833-35 they moved to Henry County, Indiana. Catharine died in 1835, and in 1837 William married Rachel Kimbill. We believe that is a spelling variation on Kimbrel, and that Rachel was probably Catharine's sister. William and Rachel then had a son of their own. William died in 1855, and Rachel survived to 1890.

Catharine was born in North Carolina in about 1790, or maybe 1795? Rachel was born in North Carolina in 1799.

Catharine's Birth Year:

It will later prove important to know if Catharine was born in 1790, or perhaps a few years later. And I don't have any direct evidence for the date of Catharine's birth. So let me review the evidence:

(1) I have a photograph of her tombstone, but it is dirty and corroded and hard to read. It appears to say she died 13 Aug 1835, and that appears to be followed by her age at death. But the latter is VERY difficult to read. It appears to me that the last two digits could be either "45", or "40". This might suggest she was born in either in 1790 or in 1795. However I'm not sure those digits even represent the year.

(2) However the person who cataloged the HCGS site recorded the age as "45". Since he was there, and was able to study the inscription, it seems to me that "45" is the most likely reading, and she was born in 1790. (I asked my source in the Henry County Genealogical Services to take another look at the photograph, but no response.)

(3) Census information is ambiguous: The 1830 census for Surry County, NC, she is recorded in the age group "40 to 50", and that means her birth has to be between 1780 and 1790. This supports a birth year of 1790 (which is the same year in which her husband was born).

(4) However the 1820 census places the oldest females in the 16-26 age category. This suggests a birth date between about 1795 and about 1805. This is inconsistent with other sources.

ABOUT JOSEPH AND CLARISSA:

Marilyn W. Totten offered the following about her husband's ancestor:

"Our Joseph Kimbrel (1806-1854) was married in Wilkes County, NC, in 1824 to Clarissa Hays, and moved to Henry County in about 1830. We are almost certain that Catherine Kimbrel Walker was a sister* of our Joseph. There were Kimbrel/Kimbro/Kimbrough/Kimbell families in Surry, although we have turned up none in Wilkes except a Peter Kimbrel was there in the 1800 census, then disappeared. Our Joseph was called Kimbro when married in Wilkes County in 1824; called Joseph Kimbriel in the 1840 census of Henry Co; called Joseph Kimbroel on his deed of 1830-31 in Henry Co (have seen the writing personally). His will gives his name as Joseph Kimball (Bk 92, p1, Henry Co.). His sons, and subsequent descendants, spelled the name Kimbrel."

*Some tentative later evidence suggests "first cousin", see later discussion.

So, Marilyn is looking for an ancestor for her Joseph, and I'm looking for an ancestor for Catharine and Rachel. And given that Catharine, Rachel and Joseph all came from the same area in North Carolina, and then settled as next-door neighbors in Indiana, they are certainly relatives.

And by the way, Joseph and Clarissa, and also Rachel, all indicated in the 1850 census that they could not read or write. That may help account for the wide variation in the names, and should keep us alert for any names with a similar sound.

There are a few more pieces of information about Joseph Kimbrel and his wife Clarissa Hays that may help in our search for Joseph's parents:

Clarissa was born 9 Nov 1806 in North Carolina, and died 2 Apr 1889 in Kansas. She is the daughter of Hartwell Hays, who was born in 1787 in Wilkes County on "Osborne Creek". This is quite near Hunting Creek, where the William Walker family lived after 1795, and is probably also where Clarissa was born. That puts everybody in the same general area. Hartwell's wife was Rebecca Brown.

Hartwell and Rebecca Hays moved to Henry County, Indiana, in about 1832, presumably at about the same time as Joseph Kimbrel and William Walker. (Memo: Marilyn writes "…we know Joseph was there by 1829".) It seems clear they were all working together on the westward trek to Indiana. And in the 1840 census for Indiana we find the three families of Hartwell, Joseph, and William all on the SAME page. They remained neighbors.

NOW, of particular interest is that in the 1840 census we find that Joseph Kimbrel's household included TWO MALES age 10-15. One of those we know to be his son Hartwell, age 12, who is also found and named in the 1850 census. But since Joseph was married in 1824, and Hartwell was not born until 1828, we believe the second male was a "son Kimbrel" born in about 1825-26. This son was not named in the 1850 census when he would have been age 24-25.

Now, from the 1850 census we know that Joseph's second son Hartwell, and first daughter Rebecca, were named after their maternal grandparents (Hartwell and Rebecca Hays). So it seems that Joseph and Clarissa may have been following a common naming convention. If so, then the FIRST son would have been named after Joseph's father. If we could discover that son's name, we might have a solid clue about Joseph's father?

Unfortunately we haven't found that son (actually, we don't know for sure that the second male in 1840 was a son, and not some other relative or employee). We are in the process of searching. Marilyn searched Joseph's will, but he did not name such a son. We have also worked with contacts in Henry County to see if there are any probate papers for Joseph (died 1854 in Henry County), or any unidentified young "Kimbrel/Kimbro/Kimbrough" deaths between 1840 and 1850. No success.

Marilyn writes "Joseph and Clarissa were divorced in 1852, and he married later that year to Charlotte Bodell of nearby Rush Co. There is this document we found, dated 12 Oct 1857: In Henry County Court: "In the matter of the estate of Joseph Kimbrel's heirs. On granting Letters of Guardianship. On person and estate of Robert H. Kimbrell, Martin M. Kimbrell, Andrew J. Kimbrell, Joseph T. Kimbrell and John C. Kinbrell, minor heirs of Joseph Kimbrell deceased, who filed Bond in the sum of Fourteen hundred dollars and James Hays his security, to the acceptance of the Court and is duly sworn according to law."

This names only the "minor heirs" of Joseph Kimbrell, and we are looking for an older son. No help here.

(Marilyn is also going to look for a will of Hartwell Hays, who moved to Iowa before 1850 and died there.)

INVESTIGATION TOOL: DNA

Marilyn and Bud persuaded Bud's 90-year-old uncle, Claude Kimbrel, to submit a sample for y-DNA testing to see if their Kimbrel line connects to any of the Kimbrough/Kimbro/Kimbrel/Kimble/Etc Surname Projects. Bingo! There has been one exact 12-marker match to a Harvey Kimbrough, presently living in Delaware.

Marilyn has determined that Harvey's ancestry can be traced back as follows:

Harvey Kimbrough (abt 1923, AL)

Harvey P Kimbrough (1887, AL)

Benjamin Huxley Kimbrough (1848, AL)

Benjamin Thomas Kimbrough (1808, GA)

James Kimbrough (1771, NC)

Nathaniel Kimbrough (1732, NC)

Buckley Kimbrough (1699, VA)

John Kimbrough (abt 1640, England or Scotland?)

Now, in a moment we will talk about possible links to one Marmaduke Kimbrough, born about 1710 in Virginia. The grandfather of this Marmaduke is the SAME John Kimbrough as listed above. Marmaduke descends through John's son, John Junior. So the Nathaniel above is Marmaduke's first cousin.

This is excellent support for the theories below. The DNA test, combined with the Virginia and North Carolina connections, strongly supports the view that the Kimbrel and Kimbrough families are connected to this John, via some descendant of his. It does not, however, by itself prove that Marmaduke was the actual ancestor of our Kimbrels - it could be any other descendant of the original John Kimbrough. (Actually it could even be an ancestor of John Kimbrough, although this seems much less likely.)

THE SUSPECTS: PETER KIMBREL OF WILKES COUNTY:

Marilyn mentions a Peter Kimbrel, found in Wilkes County in the 1800 census. And then never found again. In 1800, he and his wife were both age 26-44, and they had 4 sons. Three sons were under age 10, and one was age 10-15.

Note there are no daughters, and our Catharine and Rachel were both born before 1800. So this CANNOT be THEIR ancestor.

Marilyn's Joseph, however, was not born until 1806, so it is of course possible that Peter is his father. However Joseph was ultimately married in Wilkes County. If Peter were Joseph's father, and if he had four older brothers per the 1800 census, there ought to be census records for this family in Wilkes County in 1810 and 1820. But there is nothing.

Therefore, in my opinion, Peter and his family were transients. They lived in Wilkes County for a few years circa 1800, and then moved on. Peter is not a good candidate for our ancestor.

It is possible, based on ages, that this Peter Kimbrel is the son of John Kimbrough, the oldest son of Marmaduke Kimbrough (introduced in the next section).

NEXT SUSPECTS: THE FAMILY OF MARMADUKE KIMBROUGH OF SURRY COUNTY:

Marilyn and I have come to agree that this next family is much more likely. There was a Marmaduke Kimbrough, who was wealthy and who died in Rowan County, NC, in 1769. And his will tells us about ". . . the place whereon I now live, called Shallowford . . ." This would be at the Shallow Ford on the Yadkin River, and his will is giving land there to his sons. And it is only a few miles from the area in southern Surry (now Yadkin) where William Walker's family came to live. (Surry was formed from Rowan County in 1771.)

Marmaduke's will tells us that he had an ADULT son, John, living nearby, son of his first wife. Further, we learn from the will that he has three more sons, George, Goldman and Ormond, and a daughter Anne. And other information tells us there was a fourth son born shortly after Marmaduke's death, Marmaduke Jr. These are sons of his second wife, Mary (Mary J Turner, born 14 Apr 1742). All of these children are minors.

In the early years this family was most often found listed as "Kimbrough". However later census and other reports seemed to shift toward "Kimbro". These, and many other variations, should be kept in mind.

Let me next introduce an ancestry.com site about this family:

http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=b-25jones&id=I558

Now I do have some problems with bits of the information shown on this web page, as will be discussed. However it is better documented than anything else I have found. To begin with, it offers a transcript of Marmaduke's will. And I will quote from other entries as this discussion continues.

There is also another source I plan to quote: The "Surry County, North Carolina, Court Minutes, 1768-1789", abstracted by Mrs. W. O. Absher. You can examine any page number I quote at the following:

http://www.coffey.ws/familytree/familynotes/A2SurryDirectory.htm

I will first quote any entries relevant to the whole family, and then deal separately with any that are relevant only to individual children. And one of particular interest is on page 28, for 13 Aug 1781 – the bottom quarter of the page deals with matters related to this family. But note: Robert WALKER, Esquire, is sitting on the court – THIS is the patriarch of the Walker family I'm trying to connect to the Kimbrough's!

We also learn here that the original executors of Marmaduke's estate (see his will) are declared traitors to their country, and replaced. And Marmaduke's wife Mary has remarried, to one John Allin (Allen).

JOSEPH WILLIAMS, SUPPORTING PLAYER:

But of particular interest, in our search of the Surry Court Notes, we read "Ordered Joseph WILLIAMS be appointed guardian to George KIMBROUGH, Goldman KIMBROUGH, Ormon KIMBROUGH, and Marduke KIMBROUGH, orphans of Marmaduke KIMBROUGH, deceased." This tells us that the three sons named in the will are minors, and a fourth son Marmaduke Jr. has been born after the death of Marmaduke Senior. And this suggests that the birth dates given on the above ancestry.com site are probably quite accurate. (Memo: another source advised that the birth dates for Mary, Anna, George, Goldman and Ormon were found in an old Prayer Book belonging to George.)

Also of possible interest, the Guardian of these children is one Joseph WILLIAMS. Could this be taken to be the namesake of the Joseph Kimbrel that Marilyn is chasing? Perhaps if we study Joseph we'll learn something about the family?

Joseph WILLIAMS (1748-1827) was a fairly prominent citizen of Surry County. Some sources refer to him as "Duke of Surry". He was born March 27, 1748 in Hanover County, VA, and died in Surry County August 11, 1827. He was a delegate to the North Carolina provincial congress in 1775. He served in the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War. He is known to have lived at Shallow Ford (where the Kimbrough Estate was located. He is referenced as being present in accounts of the "Battle of Shallow Ford" which took place on October 14, 1780. The reference says "(General Sumner) arrived at the close of the battle, as did Col. Joseph WILLIAMS of Surry County, who had heard the rifle fire from his nearby home.")

Guardian Joseph is back in court on 12 May 1789 (page 155), apparently to finally settle the accounts for the last of the children. This is consistent with their reported birth dates, suggesting that they have all reached maturity in 1789.

Joseph WILLIAMS' association with the Kimbrough kids did not end in 1789. They remained neighbors, and are found signing a document together in 1809:

"STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA, SURRY COUNTY, AUGUST SESSION – A.D. 1809 Joseph Williams, George Kimbrough and Marmaduke Kimbrough (the subscribing witnesses to the foregoing last will and testament of Philip Howard) made oath that they saw the said Howard sign, publish and state the same to be his last will and testament that he was of sound and disposing mind and memory which was ordered to be recorded. Recorded accordingly by Jo. Williams."

Also, George Kimbrough signed as a witness to Joseph Williams' will on 28 Jan 1812. (Joseph, however, put off his death until 1827, and wrote three lengthy codicils to his 1812 will.)

So, we should keep in mind that we may learn more about the Kimbrough families by looking into the affairs of Joseph WILLIAMS.

Now let's see what we can learn about the individual children:

KIMBROUGH SUSPECT #1: MARMADUKE'S SON JOHN:

Marmaduke's will made it clear that his son John was already an adult when Marmaduke died in 1769. John also had several entries in the Surry Minutes, see pages 93, 115, 125, 142 and 161.

These entries show he was a participant in several court cases (the case issues were not defined). He sold some land on 19 May 1787 (p115). His last entry was on 12 Aug 1789. (This roughly corresponds to the age when the youngest of his half-brothers reached maturity. Perhaps this is more than coincidence - that his family duties are now ended, and it's time for him to move on?)

In the 1790 census there is NO John Kimbrough in Surry County. There were, however, three of them elsewhere in NC – in Caswell, Montgomery and Wake Counties. I have so far not picked up a clear trail for the right John – but I do admit that to date I haven't looked hard.

KIMBROUGH SUSPECT #2: MARMADUKE'S SON GEORGE:

George was born 3 Nov 1764, so would have been about age 5 when his father died. He is referenced on pages 112, 123, 146 and 159 of the Surry Minutes, covering the period from 15 May 1787 to 16 May 1789. In all these he is an adult, performing mundane civic duties.

He can be tracked in Surry County through the 1790, 1800, 1810, 1820, and 1830 census. His son Marmaduke is also an adult and on his own in the 1820 census. In the 1850 census we can find George's son John, and the widow of his son Ormond, all apparently living in the vicinity of Marmaduke's "Shallowford" – and close to William Walker's property.

I was at first very interested in George – he had daughters and sons of the right age to be of interest to us. But the potential for him to be our ancestor was shot down when we found his will (see above ancestry.com reference). He named all his sons and daughters, and for the daughters named the men they married. They are NOT the ones we want.

One possible weak (very!) clue for a family connection: The names of George's daughters were Catherine, Mary, Anna, and Rebecca. Those same 4 names also appear in William Walker's family, perhaps suggesting that William's wife Catharine Kimbrel was applying traditional names from her Kimbrel/Kimbrough family?

KIMBROUGH SUSPECT #3: MARMADUKE'S SON GOLDMAN:

(MEMO: There are several genealogies on Ancestry.com involving Goldman. However it is worth noting that some of them show his name as "Coleman", rather than "Goldman". Need to keep that in mind when doing searches.)

Goldman was born 1 Jun 1766, making him age 3 when his father died. He is referenced on pages 121 and 128 of the Surry Minutes, covering normal adult civic duties in 1787, showing he has reached maturity. I don't find him in the 1790 census, but he is present in the 1800 Surry census with 5 young males (I think only 3 were sons, see later discussion) and 2 daughters. In 1810 he (spelled "Kimbraugh") is in neighboring Wilkes County, with 5 sons and 4 daughters (3 sons and 2 daughters are under age 10).

Marilyn writes "I did find Goldman on several tax lists of Wilkes Co., indicating to me that he did live there as well as Surry Co."

Now, Marilyn initially particularly liked Goldman as a potential ancestor because he lived in Wilkes County where her Joseph married. And he had plenty of daughters and sons of more or less the right ages to be of interest, and nobody seems to know all their names. So perhaps our Catharine and Rachel could indeed fit in.

If Catharine was born in 1790, however, there is a serious problem: North Carolina marriage records show that Goldman was married on 18 Mar 1792 in Wilkes County, NC, to Mary Allen. So, unless Mary was Goldman's second wife, or Catharine was actually born later than 1790, it may be difficult to reconcile. However there is enough uncertainty about Catharine to keep Goldman as a possible father.

There may be some problems implicit in the above ancestry.com reference that I would like to address. Let me quote a section, and then discuss it:

"In 1803, Goldman bought and sold land on Roaring River in Wilkes County. He never actually lived on this land, which was probably land connected to Caty's inheritance from her father's will. Goldman and Caty lived in Surry County about ten more years, and then moved their family to Maury County, Tennessee about 1813, and on to Franklin County, Alabama in 1817. Goldman and his wife Mary, and son, M. D. (Marmaduke) are found on the 1830 Census of Franklin County. He died in 1835 in Walker County, Alabama at the age of 63. Mary survived him."

I was initially very skeptical about this reference, and I do believe many of the statements here are NOT accurate. (First, it says Goldman never lived in Wilkes County after buying land there in 1803, but we know he DID live there in 1810 per census, and per tax lists. Second, it says Goldman is found in the 1830 Tennessee census. But if you look at the census ages for the "1830 Goldman Kimbro" family, this is CLEARLY Goldman Junior, NOT Goldman Senior. Also this Goldman Junior is living next door to a person who got indexed as "Mary Kmblas" – and I'm sure this is Junior's mother (who met a census taker who mangled her name "Kimbro"). I think Goldman Senior must have died BEFORE 1830, not in 1835. Oh, and if he did die in 1835, he would have been age 69, not age 63. Oh, and who is "Caty"? Goldman's wife was Mary. I think this refers to the wife of his brother George.)

But I then found confirmation for some of the more fundamental parts: First, I looked at the "Maury County Tennessee Deed Books, 1807-1817" found in Houston's Clayton Library. And these show that Goldman bought 160 acres on Rutherford Creek for $700 on 21 Jun 1813. (He also sold 10.5 acres here on 18 Oct 1816.)

Second, Alabama was a new state in 1820, and census information was not complete. However there WAS a Franklin County Census with a somewhat different format! I found a book "Alabama's Franklin County"* by Mrs Frank Rose Stewart. And both Goldman and his son Marmaduke are there. Goldman has 1 white male over 21 years (that would be himself), 5 white males under 21 years, 1 white female over 21 years (his wife), and 2 white females under 21 years. That's plenty of kids to cover both Joseph and Rachel, and we know Catharine was already married!

*Can't resist quoting the secondary title of this book. "A Dissertation Submitted to The Graduate Faculty of the University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, In Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Degree of Doctor of Education in Supervision Curriculum Development School Administration", Tuscaloosa, Alabama, February 16, 1988.

NOTE: The Franklin County Courthouse burned in 1890. All records were lost.

So, it seems clear that Goldman did indeed leave Surry/Wilkes county in 1813. Can we reconcile this with our Catharine, Rachel and Joseph? I'm not concerned about my Catharine, since she would be age 23 (or maybe age 18?) in 1813 and old enough to stay behind and later marry William if she so chose. And as we will see in a moment, there are a LOT of family connections staying in Surry and Wilkes to keep an eye on this young unmarried woman.

And regarding her presumed sister Rachel, she could well have moved to Alabama with father Goldman, kept in touch with sister Catharine, and then dashed off to Indiana to mother Catharine's children when Catharine died in 1835. The toughest problem is Joseph, who would have only been age 9 in 1813. Would it have been feasible for him to get back to Wilkes County to find and marry Clarissa in 1824?

Actually, I don't see this as a serious problem. Keep in mind that Goldman had more sons than he could reasonably keep employed on one family farm. I can imagine Joseph's father saying "go spend a year with your sister Catharine back in North Carolina. They've got 4 useless little kids, and her husband William Walker could really use a good farm hand!" (And while there Joseph discovers that the Walkers are eyeing a move to Indiana, and decides that's where his future lies as well.)

There were also lots of OTHER family connections back in neighboring Wilkes County: The "Turner" and "Allen" families were prominent there, and they were VERY close to the Kimbroughs. Goldman's wife was Mary Allen, and his mother was Mary Turner (and his mother remarried an Allen after Goldman's father Marmaduke died). I found a book in the Clayton Library, "Some Pioneers from Wilkes County, North Carolina", Compiled by Mrs. W. O. Absher, copyright 1989, by Southern Historical Press, Inc. It spends 17 pages discussing the Turner and Allen families, and this is peppered with dozens of references to the Kimbroughs. So Goldman could just as well have sent one of his sons off to spend a year or two in Wilkes County with his Turner/Allen aunts and uncles.

By the way, when Wilkes County was formed in 1777, a slice of it was taken from Surry. The author, Mrs. Absher, admits this makes it impossible for her to sort out which pioneers fell on which side of the new county line. And this is exactly the area where our William Walker and his family lived.

I think Goldman is rapidly becoming my favorite "suspect"!

COUNTING GOLDMAN'S CHILDREN:

Goldman had enough unnamed children to cover Catharine, Rachel and Joseph. If you want to take this on faith, skip to the "next suspect". Otherwise here is my evidence:

I now have 3 sources for the names of some of Goldman's children. However I suspect they were all taken from the "Kimbro-Kimbrough Genealogical Quarterly" (This consists of 3 volumes, total maybe 500 pages, covering 23 issues of the "Kimbro-Kimbrough Genealogical Quarterly" published between 1964 and 1976.)

The Quarterly printed a letter written by R. L. James on 25 Jun 1964, which said: "Goldman and Mary Allen Kimbrough had the following children: 1. Goldman, Jr., who married Elizabeth Grisham, 2. Richard, who married a Morrison, 3. Marmaduke, who married his cousin, Elizabeth Allen*, 4. Georgia, who I believe, either married a Madlock or Matlock, 5. Bryant who died young and unmarried, 6. James Monroe, who married Jane Barrett - - and there were two or three girls. I was advised that James M. was the youngest child." (Another source says James Monroe was born 20 Jul 1816, in Columbia, Maury Co., TN. Died 2 Mar 1889 in Colbert Co., AL.)

*I was interested in the "Allen" connection: Elizabeth Allen was the daughter of James Allen, who was the brother of Goldman's wife Mary. James appears to have moved to Tennessee and Alabama at the same time as Goldman's family, so I cannot presume son Marmaduke was returning to North Carolina to find a wife.

SO, the above names 5 sons and 1 daughter. Let's see if we can count that many children from independent sources:

In the 1800 census, Goldman's household had 3 males under 10, 1 male 10-15, and 1 male 16-25, plus Goldman himself (age 26-44). However since he was married in 1792, the males "10-15" and "16-25" are clearly too old and do not fit. Since people of those ages are just becoming useful as farm hands, so I'm prepared to bet they represent siblings or nephews or cousins helping out as farm hands and living with Goldman? I would, however, think that the males "under 10" probably really are his sons.

And the same census indicates 2 females under 10, so those are likely daughters. (And Catharine plus Rachel would be in that age group – but as previously noted we have a problem if Catharine was born in 1790 and Goldman was married in 1792!?)

So, in 1800 we can count 3 sons and 2 daughters.

Now, in 1810 we find 3 NEW males under 10 (one of whom could be Joseph), and 2 new females under 10. That brings the likely total to 6 sons and 4 daughters. (The older females in 1810 are one age 10-15, which could be Rachel, and one age 16-25, which could be Catharine.)

Finally, we have info that the youngest son, James Monroe, was born in 1816 in Tennessee, and therefore he would not have been counted in the 1810 census. That brings us to at least 7 sons and 4 daughters.

(The 1820 Franklin County census doesn't add new info - it only identifies total children under 21 years. There were 5 males and 2 females left at home.)

So we count 7 sons and 4 daughters, but only have NAMES for 5 sons and 1 daughter. That leaves us with 2 unnamed sons, and 3 unnamed daughters, leaving plenty of room to accommodate Catharine, Rachel, and Joseph. And it is very logical that these three would be those missed in the name list, because they had all wandered off to Indiana and the Alabama family would have probably lost contact?

KIMBROUGH SUSPECT #4: MARMADUKE'S SON ORMOND:

Ormond (aka Ormon or Orman) was born 30 Jan 1768, and was only about 18 months old when his father died. He is referenced only on Page 28 of the Surry Minutes as a minor, and he would have just reached maturity at about the time the minutes end in 1789.

You may want to examine the ancestry.com reference above more carefully for Ormond. He is clearly the ancestor of the author, and therefore the author may have been much more careful with his data. The author says Ormond had three children (Marmaduke, Sarah and Mary) by his first wife Elizabeth Davie, whom he married in 1795. Elizabeth died in 1802, and he married Millie Patillo. He and Millie lost 1 or 2 children, then had a son born in 1806.

Ormond is found in the 1790 Surry census, with "three free white males of 16 years and above". There are no females, so this is consistent with him being unmarried and living with two of his brothers (somehow Ormond got favored treatment in his father's will, and he got the home acreage!).

Ormond is also found in the 1800 Surry census, but this data really doesn't make sense. There are (as in 1790) three adult males present, 4 children under 15, and NO adult females. The only way this makes sense is if the ladies were away visiting on the day the census taker came by?

The 1810 census, however, does appear entirely consistent with the ancestry.com reference. Ormon (the 1810 spelling) and new wife Millie are each age 26-44. The daughters from his first marriage, Sarah and Mary, are age 10 thru 15. And there are 2 sons under age 10 (Marmaduke would be age 10 later in the year, plus the 1806 son). By 1820 Ormond has died, but his widow Milly is still in Surry County and head of household.

Now, this information is not consistent with our Catharine or Rachel being part of this family. Catharine in particular is quite impossible, since she was born before Ormond was married and before any females appear in his household.

But the unnamed son born in 1806 is absolutely consistent with the age of Marilyn's Joseph. And there is not a requirement that Joseph be the brother of Catharine and/or Rachel – they could very well be cousins. One way that might work is for Joseph to be Ormond's son, and for Catharine and Rachel to be Goldman's daughters?

There is one SERIOUS glitch regarding Joseph being a possible son of Ormond: While many of the genealogies found are unable to name this 1806 son (leaving Joseph as a possibility), there are also several that claim missing son is "George Henry born in 1806". If that is true, then Joseph is out.

Observations: Several sources claim "George Henry" was born 13 May 1806 in Rowan County (that is not plausible, the area would have been Surry County at that point in time) and died 1 Sep 1872 in Kemper Co., MS. And many of them claim he had sons "Robert Marmaduke" and "Orman" – names suggesting that he descends from the family including Marmaduke and Ormond. Finally, I checked the 1850 census, and George Henry is indeed real, with wife and sons as indicated.

Despite the right age for one son, I conclude it is unlikely that Ormond is the father of our Joseph. "George Henry" is more plausible as his 1806 son – particularly so based on the 1850 census names.

KIMBROUGH SUSPECT #4: MARMADUKE'S SON MARMADUKE:

Marmaduke Jr. was born after the death of Marmaduke Sr. His only reference in the Surry Minutes is in the context of being an orphan son.

The above ancestry.com reference indicates he was born 8 Oct 1769, and that he died 2 Jul 1830 in Sumner County, TN.

I find him in the Surry census for 1800, living near brothers Goldmon, Ormond and George. He is the only person in his household. This is consistent with his reported marriage not being until 1801. And both of these facts exclude our Catharine and Rachel from being his daughters, since they were both born before 1800.

So this rules out Catharine and Rachel, but this Marmaduke has now become Marilyn's STRONG favorite as the father of her ancestor Joseph Kimbrel. Following is a loose summary of some recent note exchanges:

Marilyn found, and I confirmed, that there are several genealogies that identify a "Joseph" as being a son of this Marmaduke. If confirmed, this would be an excellent fit for her ancestor "Joseph Kimbrel".

Here are the names identified:

Joseph Kimbrough

William Kimbrough

Orman Lanier Kimbrough b: 1804

Marmaduke D. Kimbrough b: 1806

Thomas Frank Kimbrough b: 1808

Archibald Kimbrough

Mary Kimbrough

One concern is that the birth date of 1806 for Marmaduke III might conflict with the believed birth date of 1806 for our Joseph Kimbrel. However Marilyn points out "Joseph's birth date has to be taken with a grain of salt as it is based only on the age he gave in the 1850 census." (And I would add that the above date could alternatively be wrong, or there is even the possibility that Marmaduke III and Joseph are twins!)

She adds "The (source) page says that information on the children's names was given by an elderly researcher who had spent many years researching this family and was a "Young" descendant. Marmaduke's wife was Martha "Patsy" Young, daughter of Henry Young and Mary Ann Brooks. I have found the email of John Hunt, who is the one who gat the names of Marmaduke's children from the elderly Young descendant – hopefully, the original source might turn out to be a family Bible, if we are lucky."

So Catharine and Rachel could still be daughters of Goldman, and thus first cousins, of Joseph?

Other notes: As previously mentioned, Marmaduke Junior signed an 1809 will, along with brother George and former guardian Joseph Williams. I can't find him in 1810.

In 1820 there is a Marmaduke living in Surry County, but on examination this is clearly the son of George, and not the one we seek.

However in 1820 there is indeed a Marmaduke Kimbrough of the right age in Sumner County, TN, consistent with the ancestry.com reference. And this one appears to have 6 sons. And what appears to be the same family is still present there in 1830, although it appears that Marmaduke Sr. may have died (no male of the right age), and the head is now Marmaduke Jr. (one of 3 males age 20-30). This is consistent.

The genealogy mentioned above indicates there was one or more sons older than the Marmaduke III who is "head of household" in 1830. Normally one would expect the OLDEST son to fulfill this duty, but it is quite possible that the older sons have moved on and established their own families by 1830?

Bottom line is I think there is clearly NO room for our Catharine and Rachel in Marmaduke Junior's family. While there is plenty of room for Joseph (Duke had lots of sons), could such a Joseph manage to find a bride in Wilkes County, NC, after having moved to Tennessee? Given that there were lots of family back in NC (the Kimbrough, Turner and Allen families), it is quite possible. And if Marilyn can confirm the sources for the above genealogy, it is probable.

OTHER REFERENCES EXAMINED:

I found one more reference in the Clayton Library that looked rather interesting. It was 3 volumes, total maybe 500 pages, covering 23 issues of the "Kimbro-Kimbrough Genealogical Quarterly" published between 1964 and 1976. But this is basically a binding of newsletters, with NO INDEX. It took me half a day to scan through.

This source is clearly addressing OUR Kimbro/Kimbrough family among others. The summary had nothing that conflicted with the discussion above. And I did spot some land record transcripts indicating that Goldman Kimbro was indeed in Tennessee and Alabama as indicated above.

(Oh, this source suggests we may want to look at anybody named Kimbrow, Kimbrough, Kymborough, Kimboro, Kimborough, Kimberrow, Kemberrg, Kimbro, Cymbur, Kentberry, Kember, Cymbrough, Kemberell, Kimber, Imbro, Kymborrough, Kimbrielle, Imbrough, Kimborrow, Kembrelle, Gimbo, Kimborowes, Kimbrelle, Kimbreough. And yes, they missed our Kimbrel and Kimbull!)

I also looked at some Wilkes County Deeds & Grants, which confirmed that Goldman had 1803 land dealings in Wilkes County. The land was on the "N side of Yadkin River, mouth Roaring River". That appears to be in the south part of the county.

I looked at Wilkes County Taxable’s for 1785 through 1799. Of interest is that I could NOT find any Kimbrough/Kimbro there in that time period. That may indicate that the Peter Kimbro found in the 1800 census was either not a landowner, or did not arrive there until 1800? (Note: Marilyn does say she found tax records in Wilkes County for Goldman.)

I found Goldman in a Wilkes County Wills & Abstracts book, generally serving as security for bonds for years 1807 through 1810. That would seem to confirm he was indeed living in Wilkes County, or at least visiting there regularly?

I looked at the tax lists for Surry County for years 1790 through 1800, and for 1812, 1824 and 1825. The various family members are found there, in ways entirely consistent with census information. Ormond always had 470 acres, the largest holding. Goldman had varying acreage ranging from 100-263, and he disappears by 1812 consistent with a move to Tennessee. George also varied from 100 to 212 acres. Marmaduke first appears in 1794 – he doesn't own land, but owns slaves and that gets him subject to tax. THIS Marmaduke disappears in 1799/1800 – maybe he sold the slaves? There is a Marmaduke in 1812, but I think that one must be George's son. Ormond's widow Milly is there in 1824. ALL the family members are always found together in the same Tax District, and the land is on the Yadkin River (consistent with Marmaduke Senior's "Shallowford" estate).

There is a puzzling land entry in 1824 and 1825. There are some 1200 Kimbrough acres listed as "Doctor" or "Doctors Estate". I wonder if it had something to do with Ormond? Ormond's wife has only 150 acres, which is sounds like the common "Widows Third" of Ormond's original holdings?

THE BOTTOM LINE:

I think "Goldman" is the best fit for my Catharine and Rachel. And Marilyn is beginning to like Marmaduke Jr. as the father of her Joseph. However that's a long way from solid proof. Anybody got ideas on the next step?

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Fred Coffey, 2604 University Blvd., Houston, TX 77005

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